Is my faith simplistic?
I recently recieved an e-mail from a pastor of a church and this is what he had to say...
Your statements of belief near the bottom of your email give a largely simplistic view of doctrine. We believe that students are capable of learning the Word in doctrinally significant ways. What I am looking for in a man who is interested in being a youth pastor at North Park is that he knows the Word and what it says in the major areas of Christian faith. What this would look like is a more complete version than the one you have provided, and clearly grounded in Scripture by including references that support those beliefs. It is not an emphasis on an academic understanding of the Bible and theology. It is the opportunity for us to see that you have searched and studied the Scriptures diligently, and formed the foundation of your faith in the statement you would provide.
Here is my statement of faith...
I was tempted to write this pastor back and give him a piece of my mind... well I did, I just didn't send it.
"I could reword my beliefs and place scriptures next to them, but when you boil it all down you would get the same thing. I believe the basics of the Christian faith, and I try not to get caught up in obscure doctrines that are ultimately just differences of opinions. I do have a deep understanding of what I believe, but I don’t feel the need to use fancy words just to impress people. I want my beliefs to be understood by the everyman. I do not like the implication that my doctrine is simple or that I am not well studied in the scriptures. I do read and study the scripture. I love to discuss what the Bible says and means with people. I love trying to wrestle through the hard questions that the scriptures say. I love to help students wrestle though things in the Word and help them own their faith...
...I have been applying to churches left and right over the past few months. I have been trying to jump through the hoops that they ask to… fill out application (each church with a different set of questions), send statement of faith, talk with head of search committee, talk with senior pastor, phone interview with search committee, all then telling me they will get back to me in a few weeks, but it takes longer, much longer… I am tired of being treated like a lab rat hoping for a piece of cheese. I am tired of people making judgment calls on my beliefs, abilities, and trust based on a few e-mails and phone calls. Sure, maybe you are not the person I need to write this too, but I feel that even if I were to give you what you asked for, I would probably not get the job. So you have the pleasure of my brief “Falling Down” moment.
The process of looking for a ministry job is tiring. I have been at it for over two months. My heart has been through the ringer to many times to count. I love God the father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I love being a Christian and trusting God with my whole life. I love that he has called me into youth ministry, right now I cannot think of a better calling. I love working with students. I love helping them know Christ and to grow in Christ. I love to spend time with them. I love to build up adults to serve students. I love to watch them fall in love with youth ministry. I love planning youth events. I love my family. I love my friends. I long to reach out to the world with Christ’s love. What more do people want from me? What other hoops do they need to set up so I can jump through them?
Well. I just wanted to get this out there. Don't worry, I did not send this to that pastor, but I was tempted. I especially like the link to Falling Down.
Let me know if yoou think adding references would make my theology stronger? Is it worth it? Who knows?
Your statements of belief near the bottom of your email give a largely simplistic view of doctrine. We believe that students are capable of learning the Word in doctrinally significant ways. What I am looking for in a man who is interested in being a youth pastor at North Park is that he knows the Word and what it says in the major areas of Christian faith. What this would look like is a more complete version than the one you have provided, and clearly grounded in Scripture by including references that support those beliefs. It is not an emphasis on an academic understanding of the Bible and theology. It is the opportunity for us to see that you have searched and studied the Scriptures diligently, and formed the foundation of your faith in the statement you would provide.
Here is my statement of faith...
- I believe that God exists in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
- I believe that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man, and He was crucified on the Cross to take the punishment for our sins upon Himself. I believe He rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven.
- I believe Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to be the guide and counselor of those who place their faith in Him. The Holy Spirit gives each of us gifts to glorify God and share His love with others.
- I believe that only through faith in Jesus Christ can a person be saved. All men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; there is nothing anyone can do to redeem themselves other than placing their faith in Jesus.
- I believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired, infallible word of God.
- I believe that Christians are to strive to live like Jesus not only with words but with actions.
- I believe we can grow closer to God in studying His word and in prayer.
- I believe Jesus is coming back to redeem creation by obliterating sin once and for all.
What do you think. Is my view simplistic? Does adding references and christian termonalogy make my beliefs more valid?
I was tempted to write this pastor back and give him a piece of my mind... well I did, I just didn't send it.
"I could reword my beliefs and place scriptures next to them, but when you boil it all down you would get the same thing. I believe the basics of the Christian faith, and I try not to get caught up in obscure doctrines that are ultimately just differences of opinions. I do have a deep understanding of what I believe, but I don’t feel the need to use fancy words just to impress people. I want my beliefs to be understood by the everyman. I do not like the implication that my doctrine is simple or that I am not well studied in the scriptures. I do read and study the scripture. I love to discuss what the Bible says and means with people. I love trying to wrestle through the hard questions that the scriptures say. I love to help students wrestle though things in the Word and help them own their faith...
...I have been applying to churches left and right over the past few months. I have been trying to jump through the hoops that they ask to… fill out application (each church with a different set of questions), send statement of faith, talk with head of search committee, talk with senior pastor, phone interview with search committee, all then telling me they will get back to me in a few weeks, but it takes longer, much longer… I am tired of being treated like a lab rat hoping for a piece of cheese. I am tired of people making judgment calls on my beliefs, abilities, and trust based on a few e-mails and phone calls. Sure, maybe you are not the person I need to write this too, but I feel that even if I were to give you what you asked for, I would probably not get the job. So you have the pleasure of my brief “Falling Down” moment.
The process of looking for a ministry job is tiring. I have been at it for over two months. My heart has been through the ringer to many times to count. I love God the father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I love being a Christian and trusting God with my whole life. I love that he has called me into youth ministry, right now I cannot think of a better calling. I love working with students. I love helping them know Christ and to grow in Christ. I love to spend time with them. I love to build up adults to serve students. I love to watch them fall in love with youth ministry. I love planning youth events. I love my family. I love my friends. I long to reach out to the world with Christ’s love. What more do people want from me? What other hoops do they need to set up so I can jump through them?
Well. I just wanted to get this out there. Don't worry, I did not send this to that pastor, but I was tempted. I especially like the link to Falling Down.
Let me know if yoou think adding references would make my theology stronger? Is it worth it? Who knows?
posted by Dave A Reiss at 7:50 AM
4 Comments:
Hi Dave,
Me again. No I don't think adding scripture references to your statement of faith will make it any better. I don't think your statement of faith can be improved any. It is right on. You are right on. However, when you are interviewing and applying for a job, you unfortunately have to deal with real people. Not perfect people. Think about it objectively. The pastors response reveals that he was testing your Biblical knowledge, not just asking for your statement of faith. This is not an unusual technique in the application process. Maybe a little underhanded, but not unusual. It would have been better to ask you about your Biblical knowledge and test you right up front. And don;t be offended at people who question your knowledge or faith. They don't know you yet. This is how they get to know you. It is a responsible obligation they have. Besides, what do you have to worry about? I know you are prepared to pass the test. I know it is hard. I've been there. You're a far better man than me and I believe God will honor your faithfulness. I especially like the way you freely express your feelings of frustration with things and with God. I think God hojnors that too.
hi, dave. nice to meet you. i am an old friend of dawn's. i just want to tell you i agree with uncle carl...and your faith is not simplistic, but you expressed it simply, something uncommon and refreshing in these days of increasing overanalysis of every word we christians use to describe our beliefs. i personally think that your last paragraph about how much you love working with youth and raising up youth leaders, etc. is the most important thing, and when you have that, the call to a specific place to honor God with those passions cannot be far behind. peace to you this day, brother in Christ...
Hi David,
I know that often times after I get past the sting of someone's criticism... I find that I can actually emerge a better person after objectively considering what it is they had to say to me. Easier said than done... believe me... I know. It's hard for me to let my defensive barriers down. But when I do, I try to discern what suggestions to throw away, and what suggestions I should leverage. I think that's what you're doing here since you're soliciting our input. I applaud your willingness to seek our opinions.
It might sound cliche, but constructive feedback can be a gift and can be much more useful than a disconnected phone call that leaves you wondering.
For a good many years, I taught short corporate training classes that required course critiques from the students. Sometimes I would wonder why they didn't ALL love me and what I had given them to help them perform in their job better. But I found that the ones who actually took the time to provide constuctive feedback were the ones who motivated me where it counted (the ones who wrote the "fun-to-read" critiques only motivated my ego). The constructive feedback actually helped make my training sessions better for those who attended my classes after I took the sound advice to heart and revised my material.
The key is to leverage the SOUND advice. It's hard to see ourselves through the eyes of others until they speak up and tell us what they see (or what they don't see). This pastor's response may have been well intended. He does not say your faith is simplistic. He simply said your statement gave a simplistic view. Maybe he was simply asking for scriptural validation of the doctrine you hold near and dear to your heart... much like providing footnotes to validate facts you reference when you write a term paper. Those of us who know you and love you see your faith and love for the Lord demonstrated whenever we're with you. Demonstrating this on paper (to the extent possible) to help get you to the next step of the interview process seems to be what this pastor is trying to help you do.
Life is full of hoops. Uncle Carl's words o' wisdom are right on the money. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents too.
Love ya man!
Michael
Dave,
glad to hear you have found a job. I realize that this post is probably a bit after the fact; nonetheless, i figured i'd offer my 2 cents worth here. I hope you will receive these comments with an open mind and heart.
You asked, What do you think. Is my view simplistic? Does adding references and christian termonalogy make my beliefs more valid?
I will address your questions one at a time
1) Is my view simplistic
Yes, i would say that it is. Many people believe the same things you say you do, but still have rather drastically different interpretations and applications of those same beliefs. Your statement of faith is vague in this respect; perhaps this is what the pastor really meant when he said it was "simplistic".
Like it or not, different denominations have different views on theological points, and you will need to be aware of those and willing to submit to those differences in whatever church you pastor at. Churches are likely seeking to discern what you believe in these areas. Some things that could probably be explored more fully in your SOF are
1) The gifts of the holy spirit (specifically) and how/if they are at work today
2) Baptism
3) Is God three persons yet one? You fail to clarify this
4) What is your doctrine on Hell?
4a) Jesus is coming back to do more than "obliterate sin", maybe you could clarify that more.
5) What is God's role in salvation, and man's role?
These are just some brief examples
6) missions/evangelism
2) Does adding references and christian termonalogy make my beliefs more valid?
No, it does not. Nonetheless, i don't think validity is the main concern here. Clarity is. If i read you correctly, you seem to have quite a postmodern, and in my opinion, dangerous, view that terminology about theological concepts is not important.
Words are important, and quite powerful. Terms like, santification, justification, predestination, Calvinism, Armenianism, covenant theology, dispensations, cessation of gifts, etc are important because they communicate so much in one brief word or phrase. When you use those words/terminology, people can understand what you actually mean. The failure to use such words leaves people wondering who you are and what you really believe.
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